Sunday, August 3, 2008

Gay Marriage, Part 2

In my recent post, I addressed the issue of gay "marriage." Today, I was surprised to find this post by a fellow Mormon, who feels very strongly about this issue, too. Please read her post, and then proceed to my responses below:

  1. Homosexuality is NOT a civil rights issue!

    To begin with, the very issue of whether or not gay people are "born that way" is debatable. I can say this with certainty because I have lived in California for the past 18 years, and had a great many gay friends. I have had people try to convince me to "experiment" with it, and I have known people who have experimented with homosexual acts due to the pressure put on them by our mutual gay friends, who would otherwise not have done so. Regardless, there are obviously those who have felt homosexual attractions for as long as they can remember. Either way, let this one thing ring clear: Having a feeling does not validate the committal of any subsequent act! Many convicted criminals, particularly lifetime offenders, such as kleptomaniacs and pedophiles, also contend that they are only acting on feelings that they have had for as long as they can remember. What makes homosexuality any different? Because it's between two mutually consenting adults? Then, on those grounds, how can you justify the conviction of Armin Meiwes, the German cannibal who killed and ate a willing victim? We all have feelings, but there are some that should, and others that should not, be acted upon. The scriptures, and modern prophets, have made the distinction abundantly clear.

  2. Our Christian duty is to love the "despised... rejected... and vulnerable...

    ...But this does not require us to allow or promote actions which are contrary to the Gospel. Sure, the Savior loved the prostitute, but He also told her to "go [her] way and sin no more" (John 8:11).

  3. Yes, many gays will be offended by Proposition 8.

    Nephi says it best:
    And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center. (1 Nephi 16:2)

    What is at the "very center" of the matter is
    that in the last days... men shall be lovers of their own selves... Without natural affection... lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God (2 Timothy 3:1-4)

    How can you argue with that? A homosexual in the LDS church has the following options: 1) Be chaste, or 2) Live a double life, or 3) Leave the church. The test, as described in scripture above, is: Which do you love more - pleasure or God?

    How does it come down to "pleasure or God?" Because our sexuality was given to us by God for two purposes: First and foremost, to create bodies for our Father's spirit children to inhabit; and second, for a pleasurable bonding experience for man and wife following marriage. Inasmuch as homosexual acts CANNOT perform the first and foremost purpose of sexuality, it exists solely as an act of pleasure.

  4. On "violated spirits" and censoring the pulpit.

    If you are attending church and feel that your spirit has been "violated," then I think you should do a check of your personal attitudes. Sure, our leaders sometimes make mistakes, but (pay attention here:) this particular issue has been addressed by the First Presidency, in no uncertain terms! Are you suggesting that our local leaders refrain from relaying to us messages from those individuals that we sustain as being called from God, simply because there might be a "significant minority" in the congregation who don't want to hear it? I believe there is a quote somewhere about how to recognize when you are on the road to apostasy...

  5. "The United Church of Christ... opens its arms to gay people.

    Yes, but they don't have a living prophet. But then, it sounds like that doesn't mean much to you anyway.

    And, for the record: the LDS church opens it's arms to gays, as well.


  1. Considering that has decided NOT to appeal the ballot language, what chance do you really see for Prop 8 to pass? I just don’t see a majority of Californians voting YES on a proposition titled ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY.

    Once the churches realize that Prop 8 is an almost guaranteed loser, are they going to do the right thing and let their members know?

    If not, what happens after Prop 8 loses 40-60 (or worse), and then the members find out that the church leadership was privy all along to internal polling that predicted a crushing defeat? Do the members get their money back?

    Or do they get stuck paying for ads that were run by a campaign that knew it was going to lose but ran them anyway!

  2. Well, considering the existing "right" of gays to marry in California was foisted on us by activist judges, and not actually legal to begin with, you can be sure that this will not stop here. You cannot "eliminate" what does not actually exist in the first place.

    "Once the churches realize that Prop 8 is an almost guaranteed loser, are they going to do the right thing and let their members know?"

    Seriously? No, I guess you're right. We should tell all supporters of Prop 8 that it is all over now that gay marriage supporters feel they are going to win this. Because that's how fights are won, right? We listen to the bravado of our opponents and then cover our heads, right?

    There's no telling on this until it's over. However, I must say that your average imbecile is short-sighted, so they will have no idea as to how this will effect our country and our society. Floodgates are being opened here. That's why every dollar counts to get the message out.

  3. I just wanted to say thank you for speaking out. I am also an LDS member and a strong advocate for Prop 8. It's good to see other members who stand up for what we believe.